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alan
Administrator
Posts: 7455
Registered: Aug 2007 |
 Posted November 2nd, 2011 03:11 PM IP    
Is Cabinessence the most astonishing thing anyone recorded in 1966? I know Tomorrow Never Knows is pretty amazing but how could Brian and Van Dyke even think of the complexity of this?
I didn't realise either that VDP was one of the musicians involved. Makes you wonder how much musical imput he had as well as lyrical.
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THE MIGHGTY MOOG HAM
Member
Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2010 |
Posted November 2nd, 2011 03:19 PM IP
Very interesting version of With Me Tonight on here. Don't think I've heard this one before. That edit of Heroes and Villains at the end of disc 4 is rather good too. The stereo versions on the LP are great, especially You're Welcome. Gah, what a beautiful set!
Going back to Disc 2 now and starting from the top.
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alan
Administrator
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Posted November 2nd, 2011 06:40 PM IP
Still haven't played any of the vinyl 12" yet. Got that pleasure to come!
With me tonight sounds like it would have made a good Smile song. He definitely had way too much material. I do think a lot of stuff like I wanna be around and you are my sunshine wouldn't have made the final LP if it was one disc as planned.
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THE MIGHGTY MOOG HAM
Member
Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2010 |
Posted November 2nd, 2011 07:01 PM IP
Agreed. Looking at the compromises he made for Smiley Smile, for instance, you can see that he was pretty happy to just take the melody he liked, and use it for something smaller and shorter. He did the same for Do You Like Worms and Heroes, I'm betting he would have taken the knife to those little pieces quite quickly *if* he'd been in a more practical mode earlier, rather than later.
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THE MIGHGTY MOOG HAM
Member
Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2010 |
Posted November 2nd, 2011 07:02 PM IP
Onto Disc 4 now. Loving it. A lot to take in. The Holidays track is great, especially the bit where he's practising the Whispering Winds bit.
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Rob
Member
Posts: 2043
Registered: Sep 2007 |
Posted November 2nd, 2011 07:15 PM IP
Quote:
alan wrote:
The box as a package is beautiful. Love the detail throughout - apart from the bit with the CD's in. They could at least have gone for something more solid with that - like a velvet lined tray for instance!
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You're telling me! Just opened it and for a couple of horrible minutes there I was thinking the CDs were missing from my box!
Have YOU been Con-Demed yet?
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alan
Administrator
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Posted November 2nd, 2011 08:33 PM IP
You have to open that bit with the tape boxes.....
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Rob
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Posts: 2043
Registered: Sep 2007 |
Posted November 2nd, 2011 10:50 PM IP
Quote:
alan wrote:
You have to open that bit with the tape boxes.....
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Well, I discovered that after a couple of anxious minutes. Didn't have long to look as I'd just got home from work and was having to rush back out again for a family meal out somewhere. But I'm back now.
Have YOU been Con-Demed yet?
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THE MIGHGTY MOOG HAM
Member
Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2010 |
Posted November 3rd, 2011 11:44 PM IP
And what about the MUSIC?! 
Come on guys. Let's get low here.
Some other thoughts:
Getting to the point was Brian's biggest problem. Not every little idea can or should be recorded! Rock With Me Henry is the purest example of one idea too far. The song was fine/perfect/ready whatever. The two songs he tinkered with MOST, in H&V and Vega-Tables, while filled with super beautiful things show someone puffing up things which should have been more Hook Heavy and with an ear on the radio. Sounds like a stasis. A really beautiful stasis. Smiley Smile is the cold shower. He wasn't writing in long form. That was not where his skill was or is. H&V in its single form can shake a stick at the other one, for it works, it zings and has a start and an end. It has a dignity not heard on the near endless Heroes variations.
The box really is the greatest box set I've ever seen. And hell, probably the last proper big fuck off thing that will be in any way profitable. A depressing thing occurred to me when listening, that the amount of money that was put into these sessions, such experimentation, so much creativity could never ever happen today. There is no money in music any more. The creative geniuses aren't going to be able to put their energies into music no more. They're gonna have to work two jobs and do crappy acoustic guitar overdubs in the spare room. Forget this beautiful madness.
"There's a big thing about all of us having that bom together. Maybe I'm just trying to look for something that isn't there."
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alan
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Posts: 7455
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Posted November 4th, 2011 01:09 AM IP
The only box i've got that comes near it is Neil's Archives, but nothing matches this in terms of all the history behind it. I bought Surfs Up in 1972 and probably found out about SMiLE in early 73 (the NME Book of Rock more than likely) - if not before.
The snippet of Worms where Brian sings the real melody (ie not the one on BWPS) is worth the price of the box in itself. I missed it first time around but when you hear him sing it you can work out how it was supposed to weave in and out of the music rather than just sit on it.
Saw the various versions in a record shop today - the 2cd version looks really nice. 36 page booklet? That would be most of the box book.
Totally disagree about the 45 H & V. I think it is sluggish and laboured compared to (say) the H & V Part 1 mix. Maybe its the love of the unfamiliar but i could happily take a 7 or 8 minute version. I love the demo version on CD4. I wonder if you took all the various different options for H & V and laid them end to end how long the song would last?
Is this the last of that sort of thing?
No, i wouldn't have thought so. Actually these days it is more likely. In Brian's time there was an expectation that you made one album a year as a bare minimum. He had been doing 3-4 albums a year at one stage. Working on a whole bunch of tracks at the same time with vast numbers of options for each is quite conceivanle, and of course these days you can keep track of all of it pretty easily, editing digitally.
Brian probably was working long form. He seemed to have the whole thing in mind at least at one point but kept coming up with new options, and I think losing track of where it was going. On the tapes he seems so in control though. He knows what everyone should be doing and how to do it better. Amazing to hear all these years later.
I'm also surprised how much Bruce Johnstone is on it. For some reason I was always under the impression he wasn't around much for this one.
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Rob
Member
Posts: 2043
Registered: Sep 2007 |
Posted December 16th, 2011 07:45 PM IP
Well, looks like The Beach Boys reunion tour and new album actually is happening.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/201...ernational-tour
I like this bit:
Wilson, who recently denied that a reunion was on the cards, telling Q magazine "I don't really like working with the guys," announced that he had missed them after all. "This anniversary is special to me because I miss the boys and it will be a thrill for me to make a new record and be on stage with them again," he said.
Have YOU been Con-Demed yet?
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JK
Member
Posts: 113
Registered: Sep 2007 |
Posted December 16th, 2011 10:15 PM IP
Well, it had to be. I for one am happy enough, they deserve a celebration and I'l be getting myself a ticket. Never seen Brian and Mike share a stage before...
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Rob
Member
Posts: 2043
Registered: Sep 2007 |
Posted December 17th, 2011 07:22 AM IP
Yes, I agree. It's unmissable. Nice that they've got David Marks back in the band. It's almost like Paul and Ringo touring and recording with Pete Best (though I suppose in his case they wouldn't need another drummer - though The Pete Best Band tours with two drummers).
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alan
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Posted December 17th, 2011 01:00 PM IP
Though of course they did actually do a number of gigs I. The early days with Al and Dave where Al deputised for Brian. It wasn't as cut and dried as 'Dave out, Al in'.
But I am really happy they are doing it like this, new album, David back as well. I will certainly be there....if that turns out to be an actual gig rather than a festival. I wonder what level of venue they think they will fill? O2? Wembley Arena? RFH?
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Rob
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Posts: 2043
Registered: Sep 2007 |
Posted December 17th, 2011 04:22 PM IP
Quote:
alan wrote:
I wonder what level of venue they think they will fill? O2? Wembley Arena? RFH?
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Interesting question. I'd like it to be the medium sized venues Brian plays but, sadly, I think it's going to be places like O2 and Manchester MEN Arena (Liverpool Echo Arena would be nice)! Of course, Brian could never fill those places on his own and nor could the Brianless Beach Boys. But I don't know. The Beach Boys' brand name and the power of media hype makes me think that more than the usual suspects could be drawn to these gigs. Of course, they will be touring a recession hit Britain but that doesn't stop Macca charging £100 a ticket (incl. fees)
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JK
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Posts: 113
Registered: Sep 2007 |
Posted December 17th, 2011 05:03 PM IP
I fear the same, Wembley Arena sized venues (they could POSSIBLY fill the O2 with the right promotion), they'll be looking to maximize their earnings in this format as they'll never be able to cash in to the same extent again. I certainly hope its not just festival dates in the UK as that is an entirely different experience (and normally a truncated set list). But I'll be there wherever they end up (and, unfortunately, whatever they charge).
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alan
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Posted December 17th, 2011 07:27 PM IP
If they are only doing 50 dates then there won't be too many countries that get more than 1 or 2 dates. The UK might get a London and a Glasgow/Manchester show. I wouldn't mind the O2 for selfish reasons as I can be there in 20 minutes, the sound isn't bad.
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Rob
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Posted December 18th, 2011 02:32 AM IP
Yes, if this is a money spinner I suppose it makes economic sense to maximise demand and revenues for each gig by spreading 50 large arena events over as many countries as possible.
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alan
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Posted December 18th, 2011 03:31 AM IP
And a good 25 of those will be US dates anyway. If not more.
It's weird as when I saw them in 1980 I thought they were over the hill. Looking back now they were still youths! At least Brian will be a bit more active than he was back then. I can imagine he'll be quite pleased to be able to take a back seat and let Mike and Al take a lot of the leads. I imagine Jeff at least will get a call from Brian's band, hopefully they will use more of his band than Mike's. That will be the first battle though.
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Rob
Member
Posts: 2043
Registered: Sep 2007 |
Posted December 18th, 2011 10:52 AM IP
Quote:
alan wrote:
I can imagine he'll be quite pleased to be able to take a back seat and let Mike and Al take a lot of the leads.
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Really? Surely a lot of people are going to be disappointed if Brian is a figure in the background? Or is this really going to be a return to Brian singing a couple of lines in one or two songs, each time introduced by "Ladies and gentlemen! Brian Wilson!"
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alan
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Posted December 19th, 2011 01:30 AM IP
Oh i think we all know Brian is way beyond his 1980 level. But I still think he will prefer singing a smaller number of leads and letting Mike do the talking. He's clearly never enjoyed that side of playing live. But he will certainly not be the couch potato he was on previous tours with the band.
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Sheriff John Stone
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Posts: 905
Registered: Jun 2008 |
Posted December 19th, 2011 02:01 AM IP
I think that Brian's role was clearly defined and mutually agreed on in both the area of songwriting/recording AND live performances.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Brian performing in three formats. First, I think he will be given a keyboard to sit behind and occasionally play if he wants. Second, I wouldn't be surprised to see Brian simply standing behind a microphone and singing and dancing (well, at least shuffling his feet occasionally). Third, we might even see the obligatory strapping on of the bass (and being doubled) for a song or two, maybe an encore. I would be shocked if he sat behind a single keyboard for the whole concert. Without having to sing the lead vocal to every song like he does at his solo concerts, things would get awfully boring for him, sitting behind an inaudible keyboard and singing oohs, ahhs, and dits dits for two hours.
I can see these songs being on the setlist, and Brian given the lead vocal:
Sloop John B
Surfer Girl
Wouldn't It Be Nice (doubled with Al)
God Only Knows
Good Vibrations
Other possible Brian leads:
Don't Worry, Baby
Please Let Me Wonder
Kiss Me Baby
Darlin'
Forever (if David Marks doesn't do it)
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alan
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Posted December 19th, 2011 03:30 AM IP
Brian's always struggled with WIBN, and Al probably can still manage it. Brian would certainly do the rest you mention. I think he would honestly prefer not to have to do too much, I think the tour will be hard enough on all of them at their age. I expect they will closely to the early years though which is a shame as I'm no great lover of Little Deuce Coupe when they have songs like Kiss Me Baby in the locker.
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Sheriff John Stone
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Posted December 19th, 2011 04:07 AM IP
Quote:
alan wrote:
I think he would honestly prefer not to have to do too much, I think the tour will be hard enough on all of them at their age.
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And, because of that, this is probably one of the rare times it is good that Melinda is involved in The Beach Boys' affairs. And Jeff Foskett.
They know what position(s) to put Brian in to be successful. They know what he can and can't do. As a solo performer Brian was FORCED to stay involved - he had to sing all the songs! Now, back in a group that shares lead vocals, they have to find that happy medium. Frankly, I hope he doesn't get bored, causing him to miss cues, miss words, give sloppy lead vocals - even wander off the stage to take breaks.
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alan
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Posted December 19th, 2011 02:03 PM IP
A lot will depend on how they get along after all this time. If Mike and Brian can find it in them to step back and let the ego's not get in the way then it will work. If Brian starts getting bullied then he will just be along for the ride. Fingers crossed.
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Sheriff John Stone
Member
Posts: 905
Registered: Jun 2008 |
Posted December 19th, 2011 09:48 PM IP
I'm not worried about Mike and Brian getting along or Brian getting bullied. The main reasons are because Mike doesn't want to blow this, and, the main reason - Melinda will be lurking.
You know, alan, Mike and Brian have had their differences, but, with a few exceptions, the differences have been in the areas of the direction of the band, some lyrical/artistic difference, and of course the "legal issues" they fought out regarding credits and $$$.
Did Mike and Brian ever have serious problems co-existing on stage? And, there is the absence of something that is not being mentioned in these interviews, and I'm not referring to Carl or Dennis. This time, probably for the first time since 1963, Brian won't be under the influence of drugs, at least not illegal ones or illegally prescribed ones. This post isn't about defending Mike Love, but think about what he had to deal with - on stage - in the 1960's and 1970's with the Wilson brothers. For Mike, It should be like heaven this time. I think. I hope.
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alan
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Posted December 19th, 2011 11:06 PM IP
I'm not a Mike hater at all, but there is a bit of history. Interestingly I just read a quote from Mike on Rolling Stone where he says they will be using Brian's band with the addition of John Cowsill on drums and Scott Totten on guitar from his live band, he actually says 'Brian has a fabulous live band so we'll be mainly using his group'. So that helps both ways - Brian will feel protected and the sound will be awesome. No-one has to learn very much other than the odd new key and the BB's can be assured that even if their own voices don't cut it they will still sound great!
Good start.
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Sheriff John Stone
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Posts: 905
Registered: Jun 2008 |
Posted February 23rd, 2012 04:16 AM IP
The Beach Boys are coming to The Sands in Bethlehem, PA on May 17; that's the closest date on the the tour to my home. So I called an old Beach Boys' buddy - we've gone to about 30 concerts since 1978 - to see if he was up for one more. He said "yes" and he agreed to get the tickets. Guess how much they cost? $325.00 per ticket!
Did I do the right thing? My buddy called Ticketmaster and, if you want to get anywhere near the stage, you have to get these V.I.P. packages. He wanted to go all out, so I went along with it. So, this is what we ended up with:
- 3rd row seats
- you get to attend the sound check (I think)
- attend a Meet And Greet (I'm sure)
- photo and autograph opportunities
- a special T-shirt
- a poster
- a special laminated ticket
- and other goodies
I still can't believe I spent that much money. I never did anything like that in my life. But, I figured this would probably be the last time I ever see them. If everything comes off as planned, it will be a special night, one that I will always remember. And, the bottom line is, and this might sound corny - but people on a message board might understand - The Beach Boys (especially Brian and his music) have been a big part of my life, bigger than it probably should've been. If your gonna splurge and do something different, what better way to spend your money than on THE MUSIC!
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alan
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Posted February 23rd, 2012 07:32 PM IP
Good grief.
BUT, on the whole if I had the money I would do it too. So go for it!
No UK dates so far, the last leg clashes with the Olympics so they may have run into trouble finding somewhere and managing to book hotels and the like. So we may miss out.
What did ou think of them at the Grammys?
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Sheriff John Stone
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Posts: 905
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Posted February 24th, 2012 12:14 AM IP
Quote:
alan wrote:
What did ou think of them at the Grammys?
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I thought it was pretty bad, but not unexpected.
For that crowd and that night, "Surfer Girl" was not a good choice. I don't have any problems with Maroon 5, but I was disappointed with their performance; I was not impressed with their vocals. Foster The People's performance was worse. "Wouldn't It Be Nice" has to be sung with some life and exuberance; their performance was boring. So, I thought it got off to a shaky start, and I was sinking in my couch .
It caught me off guard when "Good Vibrations" started with the chorus, but, with Brian, I kind of understood - which was proven out when it was time for him to come in. It was jarring - but again not unexpected - when Foskett came in. However, maybe the majority of people didn't pick up on it; I'm familiar with it. Brian just seems to be too gone that he still can't "come in" at the right time, the precise moment. Can't keep up. It's kind of sad. I hope he does better during the tour.
I don't know. Mike AGAIN sounded weak. I think his voice is gone. The "Do It Again" video vocal isn't much better. But, Mike LOOKED good, normal, calm. He looked cool, like he belonged there, like he was enjoying himself. I barely heard - or saw - Al, Bruce, or David.
Honestly, and I know I'm an overly-critical fan, I thought they gave the weakest performance of any act that night. But, but, but......I think the crowd was into it. Respect and admiration was shown. I liked that. The next day, I surveyed just about everyone I encountered, and it was almost unanimous in their praise of the performance. A couple of people actually said that Brian looked and sounded good. I did see that audience YouTube video of the performance and it did give a better picture and sound.
I'm looking forward to the tour, the album, the DVD, etc. I've been advocating Brian getting back with the Beach Boys for years.....on another message board. I think his solo work has been boring and unfulfilling. I find this current configuration of The Beach Boys interesting, but I think that they will be carried by the backing band.
What do you think?
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