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Sheriff John Stone
Member
Posts: 905
Registered: Jun 2008 |
 Posted August 28th, 2011 07:23 PM IP    
Well, I do know the source of "Mama Mama Mama", if I'm allowed to say. It's from Project Smile. The "Mama Mama Mama" part appears to be a tag, and it's Mike Love chanting "mama mama mama" with the group humming weirdly, almost like they're imitating kazoos. There is a fast version of "Mama Mama Mama" and a regular, stready paced one.
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alan
Administrator
Posts: 7455
Registered: Aug 2007 |
Posted August 28th, 2011 08:41 PM IP
The 1967 Sufs Up is from a solo Brian version recorded during the Wild Honey sessions and has different chords and stuff according to AGD. Sounds VERY interesting. Who knew that existed?
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THE MIGHGTY MOOG HAM
Member
Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2010 |
Posted August 28th, 2011 08:49 PM IP
There has been some chatter for a time about why Brian didn't re-record it during Smiley, seeing as it was one of the central songs written. He was definitely continuing on with the Smile material from the perspective of the artistic choices he made with Smiley, and doesn't seem to have been all that distraught at leaving it behind in its previous form. If it does turn out to be true, it will be the greatest thing on here, I reckon, and will be going quick sharp on a re-arranged Smiley Smile! 
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alan
Administrator
Posts: 7455
Registered: Aug 2007 |
Posted August 28th, 2011 11:33 PM IP
He probably wasn't recording it for any reason other than he felt like singing it at the time. Wild Honey was recorded at his home if I remember rightly so my guess is that it was just that. Actually one of the lesser focused on stories of this time is the recording of the Smiley Smile stuff and why they rerecorded the tunes they did as opposed to all the ones they didn't. Say what you like about SS, it does all hang together in a weird, sloppy sort of way. I can't imagine Surf's Up fitting into the general scheme of things, and i don't think it would have lent itself to the recording techniques available and the use of the Baldwin organ which dominates the record.
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THE MIGHGTY MOOG HAM
Member
Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2010 |
Posted August 28th, 2011 11:42 PM IP
Probably to do with consistency of theme and that, yeah. Not sure if it would have, but then again, Good Vibrations sounds fine beside With Me Tonight and Vegetables sounds great after Heroes and Villains, so it might have worked better than we'd think. Don't think it's a sloppy album in any negative sense - except in it being designed to have a spur of the moment feel, which is kind of different - and massively prefer the versions of Wonderful and Wind Chimes he finished with. Can't say at this stage that there is anything from the Smile Sessions which I think is outright better than the versions that were put on Smiley.
There are certainly other tracks which could have made it stronger, Surf's Up and Cabin Essence being the two main ones, and I think Can't Wait Too Long and Cool Cool Water could have really beefed it up and still nailed all of the same thematic points as what was happening with the sessions in 66/67. The only track I wish wasn't there is Gettin' Hungry, but that's simply because it doesn't fit in, it would be fine on Wild Honey.
As far as why he was recording this version of Surf's Up, well we're not sure yet! Hopefully they will tell us in the notes, which I'm sure they will. May have just been for his personal use, but it shows that the Smile music was not sealed off after 67, that it didn't suddenly cease to be, it kept on evolving, and he kept working it around in his head. If this is from the Wild Honey sessions then it's certainly in the same boat as the Smiley recordings. A shame they didn't cut out some of the Good Vibrations stuff and put some of the Smiley tracks on there. The stereo Wonderful shows was a beautiful little production it is, with way more going on than first appears.
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alan
Administrator
Posts: 7455
Registered: Aug 2007 |
Posted August 29th, 2011 02:32 AM IP
I think they haven't brought the Smiley stuff in because its been out there for 41 years and this stuff hasn't. There is also a snobbier element that 'of course Smile is better'. Disagree over Wonderful and Wind Chimes - i find the Smile versions WAY better personally.
Cool Cool Water and Can't Wait Too Long were both WIld Honey era tracks. The two albums were only three months apart though which is often forgotten. One of my major points of contention with the British Music press is their continual harping on about how Brian lost it after Smile and retreated to his bedroom, whereas in fact he then made 3 albums in about 9 months....some retreat!
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THE MIGHGTY MOOG HAM
Member
Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2010 |
Posted August 29th, 2011 02:38 AM IP
Nah, I know they're from Wild Honey, I just meant that they showed that his re-arranging and re-working of that material was just as capable of being awesome as anything during the Smile Sessions proper, and that if I had to arrange a Smile(y) mix, I'd include them over say Da, Da -technically not Smile proper either- or Holidays or Look or even Child is Father of the Man. I think there was actually a progression happening there, not the other way around. And I think it's possibly that this version of Surf's Up is evidence of his changing artistic desires that led him to re-work Wonderful, Wind Chimes and Vegetables in the way he did.
I get that Smiley has been out as an album for 41 years, but the sessions certainly haven't! Even including Wonderful, with the track isolated for listening would be a worthy inclusion here, as would a stereo mix of Wind Chimes, if it is possible. I think they're certainly as relevant to the story of Smile, as Teeter Totter Love is anyway. But anyways, I'm not trying to be negative here at all, mad props to them for including Cool Cool Water, and You're Welcome and that. Just a big old shame that we'll probably never see Smiley Smile being treated like it should and getting a lovely set of sessions of its own!
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alan
Administrator
Posts: 7455
Registered: Aug 2007 |
Posted August 29th, 2011 01:14 PM IP
Still nothing on Amazon UK about it though, or Play, or Spin. Damn bank holidays!
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THE MIGHGTY MOOG HAM
Member
Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2010 |
Posted August 29th, 2011 10:15 PM IP
Yeah, really hoping the UK Amazon put it up soon. Not looking forward at waiting two weeks for it to deliver!
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THE MIGHGTY MOOG HAM
Member
Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2010 |
Posted August 31st, 2011 01:03 PM IP
Quite a while til it's released. This pre-orders usually go up and down a few times, so hopefully it'll drop down again!
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alan
Administrator
Posts: 7455
Registered: Aug 2007 |
Posted August 31st, 2011 02:00 PM IP
Spin are saying Oct 31 release (yay! we get it a day early) for £129.99. Nothing on Amazon yet.
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Sheriff John Stone
Member
Posts: 905
Registered: Jun 2008 |
Posted September 1st, 2011 01:08 AM IP
Well, what'd you guys and gals think?
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THE MIGHGTY MOOG HAM
Member
Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2010 |
Posted September 1st, 2011 01:31 AM IP
I think they're really good. Even listening to the MP3s, which you can download at the video project site btw, the clarity on H&V is really something. The Cantina section is more beautiful than I've ever heard it. I think it's probably the best mix of H&V you could assemble, and rightly takes account of Brian's artistic choices in completing the song for single release. Lovely little unreleased/unheard bits in there too.
Good Vibrations is left as the great song that it is and was, yet includes possibly my favourite ever out-take. with the Hum De Hum vocals. Obviously not would have happened in the many possible Smile albums - and didn't with Smiley - but a worthy alternate mix. Overall, it's made me unreasonably excited to get the box-set!
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alan
Administrator
Posts: 7455
Registered: Aug 2007 |
Posted September 1st, 2011 02:06 PM IP
I actually don't want to listen to them yet!!!! I want to wait for the whole thing.
Is that sad?
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THE MIGHGTY MOOG HAM
Member
Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2010 |
Posted September 1st, 2011 02:08 PM IP
John Lane was just saying the same thing
I get that. If there's a leak, I'm not going to listen. I just figured that since Heroes and Villains has been the most released song out of all of this, it wouldn't really hurt.
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alan
Administrator
Posts: 7455
Registered: Aug 2007 |
Posted September 1st, 2011 02:21 PM IP
Just saw it on amazon. We are getting screwed this side of the pond. That works out at $213.
The Who's Quadraphenia set which is almost exactly the same bar the 2LP set is £79.
Oh well, what can you do. Amazon US don't deliver here and the import charges would whack it up anyway (you get hit with VAT AND a huge admin charge). I thought it would be around that to start with anyway.
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THE MIGHGTY MOOG HAM
Member
Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2010 |
Posted September 1st, 2011 02:36 PM IP
With my pre-order price, which was $146, including $25 for priority delivery, and $36 for the import tax, it still works out cheaper than if I ordered from Amazon UK. I was thinking of cancelling the order and going with the UK one so it would get it here quicker, but it'll arrive the same time basically, and for cheaper if I order from the US. That's crazy!
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alan
Administrator
Posts: 7455
Registered: Aug 2007 |
Posted September 1st, 2011 07:09 PM IP
At one stage when i looked it was $110. I bet that bloke got sacked.....
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Rob
Member
Posts: 2043
Registered: Sep 2007 |
Posted September 1st, 2011 07:59 PM IP
Must admit I really balk at these prices.
Have YOU been Con-Demed yet?
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alan
Administrator
Posts: 7455
Registered: Aug 2007 |
Posted September 1st, 2011 09:40 PM IP
When you think about it it's a ludicrous amount. I try not to think about it. Its what i have credit cards for really, so i can buy this sort of thing a bit at a time. But of course with the interest rates on those its even dearer!
But, what can a poor boy do who really wants all this stuff. Bootlegs don't seem so dear now do they!
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THE MIGHGTY MOOG HAM
Member
Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2010 |
Posted September 2nd, 2011 05:04 AM IP
Unfortunately it's a case where they know that it will sell, because the target audience happens to be one where the actual physical product means a lot. Considering the state of the music business and their inability to sell pretty much anything, it's not surprising that they're taking this opportunity with both hands. Personally, I think around €100 would be fair, considering the amount of work and love that has gone into it.
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Sheriff John Stone
Member
Posts: 905
Registered: Jun 2008 |
Posted September 2nd, 2011 06:08 AM IP
Yeah, it's gonna sting a litlle bit shelling out that kind of money. But, from my perspective - having waited almost 30 years for an official release - I guess I can live with it. In some ways, I'm grateful it came out while I'm still alive. Seriously, think how many diehard fans passed away while waiting for something like this. Hey, I complain about BB/BW things as much as anybody, but, so far, I can live with what I'm seeing and hearing.
A couple of common sense things to consider:
1. This IS a SMiLE boxed set we're talking about. If there's one BB-related product that's worth the price...
2. You have to consider EVERYTHING you're getting in the box - multiple CD's, vinyl, a reproduction of the booklet, Frank Holmes' artwork - and a fairly extensive (I think) book.
3. If you can wait, and I know that's hard if not unrealistic, it will probably go on sale in a few months. You might also find a few outlets with a discounted price, including Ebay..
I want as many people as possible to hear this music; God knows I've been spreading it around for decades. What I was hoping for, specifically for the average music fan, was a single disc SMiLE comp with the (arbitrarily chosen) "best" versions of each song, put in some sequence that makes some kind of sense, maybe even chronological order - with a budget price tag put on it. I still think one will come out in a few years, if CD's are still around.
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alan
Administrator
Posts: 7455
Registered: Aug 2007 |
Posted September 2nd, 2011 02:18 PM IP
Actually the problem is more the discrepancy between what you will be paying and what we on this side of the pond are splashing out. At the very least this will cost us over $200 whereas you can get it quite a bit cheaper (if i'd gone for the $110 option when it first appeared i would be laughing!).
I'm still getting it and won't think twice about it, but it hurts when you see how much less it is going for in the US! I was hoping for £80 to start with so to see it at £129 is a bit of a leap.
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Primey Prime
Member
Posts: 208
Registered: Sep 2007 |
Posted September 2nd, 2011 03:05 PM IP
Quote:
Sheriff John Stone wrote:
What I was hoping for, specifically for the average music fan, was a single disc SMiLE comp with the (arbitrarily chosen) "best" versions of each song, put in some sequence that makes some kind of sense, maybe even chronological order - with a budget price tag put on it. I still think one will come out in a few years, if CD's are still around.
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Won't the first disc pretty much be that? It sounds like the perfect introduction. There's a single-disc on Amazon.
Anyone got an inkling how much the box'll actually be in stores? I'm thinking I'd prefer to just walk into a store on the day. If the box is (more) overpriced, I might just pick up the single disc instore on the day and get the box posted to mother's.
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Sheriff John Stone
Member
Posts: 905
Registered: Jun 2008 |
Posted September 2nd, 2011 08:35 PM IP
Quote:
Primey Prime wrote:
Won't the first disc pretty much be that? It sounds like the perfect introduction. There's a single-disc on Amazon.
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Yes, most of the first disc is a good summary (with sequencing) of every song. However, they did tack some sessions on there and there is a second disc of more sessions, which obviously raises the price and, I'm not sure how much the average fan will listen to those sessions.
I guess what I meant was a single disc of COMPLETED songs (in whatever versions), no sessions, and a price tag of around $9.99; you could sit the CD nicely on the shelf next to Pet Sounds and basically serve as the SMiLE album. Yes, I know there can never be a SMiLE album...
EDIT: I wasn't aware that Amazon was offering a single disc SMiLE. Is it the same as Disc 1 of the two disc set? Do you know a price?
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alan
Administrator
Posts: 7455
Registered: Aug 2007 |
Posted September 3rd, 2011 01:01 AM IP
Quote:
Primey Prime wrote:
Anyone got an inkling how much the box'll actually be in stores? I'm thinking I'd prefer to just walk into a store on the day. If the box is (more) overpriced, I might just pick up the single disc instore on the day and get the box posted to mother's.
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The full RRP in the UK is £160. The few record shops we have left don't seem to discount box sets that much. I seem to recall Archives being about £30 dearer than Amazon. Of course if its posted you can never guarantee it wlll arrive on time. Play used to be good at mailing things early so you sometimes got them on the Saturday before but conversely i've had some bad experiences with them where they have gone out of stock before mine was sent so it took weekd to arrive. I tend to rely on Amazon, though i'll keep an eye out to see if the price drops at all. I suspect it won't though.
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THE MIGHGTY MOOG HAM
Member
Posts: 306
Registered: Mar 2010 |
Posted September 3rd, 2011 03:13 AM IP
There is a 1 CD version listed on Amazon UK, I believe.
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