Posted October 7th, 2011 03:36 AM IPIan, I don't find you contrary because you like, appreciate, or rank a song higher (or lower) than somebody else.
You like polls, right? You don't expect
everybody to vote for the same songs, do ya? That wouldn't be any fun!
alan Administrator Posts: 7455 Registered: Aug 2007
Posted October 8th, 2011 02:25 AM IPIts a good point that while i personally would rank Surfs Up and Cabinessence higher in my own list than Don't Worry Baby, it would certainly be higher than most of the rest of it. But SMiLE has become so much more than the sum of its parts, whilst at the same time in reality being far less than them!
Quote: alan wrote:
But SMiLE has become so much more than the sum of its parts, whilst at the same time in reality being far less than them!
IMO, the greatness of SMiLE is two-fold. There is the brilliance of the individual songs such as "Cabinessence", "Heroes And Villains", "Surf's Up", "Good Vibrations", "Our Prayer", "Wonderful" and the rest.
But, also, it is the sum of the parts. To Ian's point, yeah, there are individual songs from other albums and other periods that are as great as the songs on SMiLE. But, it's hard to rank individual songs against each other. I mean, how do you choose between "Don't Worry Baby" vs. "California Girls" vs. "God Only Knows" vs. "Til I Die" That's difficult to do. With an album or a group of songs, it's still difficult, but it is a little easier. I don't want to turn it into a math equation, but it is the quantity that is so impressive. SMiLE just has so many; it doesn't quit. When I add it ALL up, it just seems to come to the top, or near the top. Can't forget about old Pet Sounds, though. Or Today. Or Love You. Or....
(Edited by Sheriff John Stone)
Posted October 9th, 2011 02:51 PM IPThis raised a few chuckles. Is there a more embarrassing and self betraying Insider prestige trade in popular music?
Posted October 9th, 2011 04:40 PM IPShould I delete all of my posts in this thread that takes shots at Mark Linett and Al Jardine? I wouldn't want to jeopardize the board.
Posted October 9th, 2011 05:08 PM IPAhaha! I just love how he's insinuating just that, even though it would have to be someone more litigious and deluded than Prince to believe that they could shut down a board simply for people stating opinions and utilizing sarcasm in specifically putting down said negative opinions. Lovely too that old Doe is the most consistently abrasive, belligerent and condescending sort on there. But I guess he's got the inside track. He has heard Mike Love's last solo album after all.
alan Administrator Posts: 7455 Registered: Aug 2007
Posted October 10th, 2011 02:20 AM IPWhat on earth is going on there? I can't be bothered tracking back through the posts and I don't go there too often these days - I can't focus that much on the Beach Boys alone. I get enough of a discussion in other forums. How exactly could the Beach Boys shut down a board? Isn't that up to the people that run it? Oh well, I can't believe anyone bothers with this board anyway! We don't even have a BB song as a name.
Quote: alan wrote:
What on earth is going on there? I can't be bothered tracking back through the posts and I don't go there too often these days - I can't focus that much on the Beach Boys alone. I get enough of a discussion in other forums. How exactly could the Beach Boys shut down a board? Isn't that up to the people that run it? Oh well, I can't believe anyone bothers with this board anyway! We don't even have a BB song as a name.
Basically Andrew Doe is claiming that his insider sources are a bit peeved at some of the comments on the board. As per usual he is refusing to specify the post or poster that has caused the issue, instead relying on good old obscure insinuations - specifically threatening the possibility that the board could be shut down for good. He started chastising Buddahat for using the word drunkard in a sentence with Mark Linnett. Not that he was insinuating Linnett was a drunk mind you, but actually being obviously sarcastic about the possibility. Pretty ridiculous. Not even Prince was able to shut down boards because of sarcasm or obviously over the top opinions.
Quote: Three weeks to go! Brian interview publicising SMiLE in the Wall St Journal - link here http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...0066845070.html though it has to be said he doesn't say anything of much interest.
I thought some of his answers were actually pretty interesting. Check out the follow up one. I'll try and find the link later.
alan Administrator Posts: 7455 Registered: Aug 2007
Posted October 10th, 2011 11:53 AM IPI suppose the interesting thing was that he was doing an interview about it per se. But you never know with Brian about the answers to anything. Sometimes you think he is remembering info thought lost and then you just think he's making it up.
Posted October 10th, 2011 06:37 PM IPI think it's great that he's owning the way Smile will be on the box-set. I liked the line about "This is the adventure I want you to take." Great to see him acknowledge that there was a lot of great stuff that wasn't on the 2004 album too. The concerts really do seem to have helped him get past a bad part in his life.
alan Administrator Posts: 7455 Registered: Aug 2007
Posted October 10th, 2011 07:14 PM IPAbsolutely. Regardless of the quality of his later work that was a huge turning point for him. I think will be seen as a staggering achievement in the career of the band overall when seen in context in later years. Darian said recently that Brian was not engaged at all to start with and you can see that in the SMiLE DVD. That sort of fear can't be faked. I'm not sure the release of the Beach Boys material now was anything other than a financial decision but at least it was one they finally all agreed on. Brian even says in one interview this month that he didn't know who would buy it even now. I think he'll be shocked at the sales.
Posted October 11th, 2011 09:00 PM IPTone Audio Review. Very nice.
Quote: You want what he’s having? Why, of course. Upon listening to the bizarre, eccentric, neurotic, enigmatic, imaginative, acid-drenched, peerless SMiLE Sessions, it’s easy to understand why anyone might desire the spiritual nutrition and drug diet that fed Beach Boys leader Brian Wilson during the ensemble’s 1966-67 recording period. While previous efforts contain snippets of the fabled material -- and Wilson finished SMiLE in 2004 with a different cast -- collectors, fans, and folks curious about the most mythological album (n)ever issued have clamored for its release for decades. Everyone finally gets his or her wish -- mostly.
Available in multiple configurations, The SMiLE Sessions 2CD version boasts an estimation of the abandoned SMiLE album as well as a disc of session highlights; the extravagant 5CD box features the aforementioned and three additional discs of session material. (A 2LP edition contains only the album and five bonus cuts.) Again: The 19-track SMiLE included here is not considered a technical album as Wilson and company never completed audio’s equivalent of the Loch Ness Monster. Hence, what’s presented equates to a semblance agreed upon by group members Wilson, Mike Love, and Al Jardine. All were involved in a painstaking project that demanded producers Mark Linett and Alan Boyd consult upwards of 70 master reels of tape while tackling the mind-numbing tasks of putting the group’s sonic “modules” in a sensible order as well as piecing together fragments into coherent songs.
In that simply hearing the constant fits and starts occasionally feels infuriating, it’s relatively impossible to imagine the patience Linett and Boyd employed to bring The SMiLE Sessions to light. Indeed, one of the more illuminating aspects of the 5CD collection has little to do with the music. Rather, enlightenment stems from spying on Wilson’s studio banter and recognizing the ad-infinitum degree to which the obsessive-compulsive tunesmith forced his mates and Los Angeles’ finest studio hands to stop/repeat/stop/repeat/stop in a quest for “perfect” takes and sounds he envisioned in his mind. Gorgeous baroque melodies, heavenly harmonies, psychedelic freedom, experimental techniques, humanist spirituality, and sophisticated concoctions of pop, choral, jazz, cabaret, and R&B on SMiLE aside, insight into both Wilson’s methods and madness in the recording studios proves most compelling.
While certain camps maintain that label politics and contract disputes accounted for the collapse of SMiLE, The SMiLE Sessions confirms otherwise. Consider: The fifth disc contains nothing but renditions of the 1966 stand-alone single “Good Vibrations,” two dozen in all, the labors ultimately yielding an indisputable slice of modular-constructed pop genius and, unfortunately, triggering within the tormented Wilson an insatiable thirst to make every subsequent Beach Boys song as glorious, symphonic, and grand.
And so there are vocal coaching lessons, trials of members crooning while lying on their back, playful moans, microphones dropped into water. There are fades, preludes to fades, verse remakes, alternate introductions, barbershop vocal sections, chorus vocal sections, overdub mixes, and acapella takes devoted to one tune -- each separate track lasting between 25 seconds and several minutes. Wilson’s mind keeps changing. So too, then, do his instructions and inclinations. How nobody managed to sock him out of frustration remains a marvel on par with the composer’s finest arrangements. It all leads one to believe that Wilson, particularly in his compromised mental state, never would’ve arrived at a point he would’ve deemed satisfying. SMiLE was destined to be incomplete.
Moreover, the set’s tremendously informative essays expounds upon the notion that, recalling the era’s technological limitations associated with tape splicing, executing the countless sequencing and re-sequencing duties in the face of tireless re-recording and editing burdens would have likely taken years -- especially given Wilson’s propensity for fixes and alterations, which generally required having to again start a mix from scratch. To wit: “Good Vibrations” required almost six months to finalize. In his notes, Boyd, a veteran documentary filmmaker, calls the from-the-vaults reissue “the hardest project I’ve ever worked on” and observes “many of the songs were like little Frankenstein monsters, musical beings built from the spare parts in Dr. Linett’s audio laboratory.”
To that extent, the presence of a definitively researched SMiLE Sessions Sessionography guides listeners through the creative practices and vast sources. Undoubtedly, it also stands to rankle those who believe their bootleg versions to reflect the correct details.
Sonically, the main album is presented in mono and the session contents in stereo. In preparation for HDCD, the original analog 4-track and 8-track session tapes were transferred to high-resolution digital, with the final masters created at 88.2kHz. What a trip.
—Bob Gendron
alan Administrator Posts: 7455 Registered: Aug 2007
Posted October 12th, 2011 12:45 AM IPThanks for that. He makes a good point about the task Brian set himself to make something out of all those fragments. It must have seemed insurmountable to look back over all those tapes and put them all together. Far easier to just start again and do it simply.
Posted October 12th, 2011 02:22 PM IPAnd here's an interview with Mark Linnett. Great point about the lack of order pre 2004. And this: "Brian made a few changes for this release." is very pleasing. Seems like old Brian may actually have been the one to re-position some tracks in a more 66/67 order...
Also, very honest dialogue about the length. Very interesting where he says that Brian's choices in 2004 were what he felt best represented the album but what would not have all been able to happen in 67.
Posted October 12th, 2011 02:31 PM IP"If you think the Mona Lisa looks better turned upside down, or with a moustache painted on it, well, the lovely thing about this technology is now you can roll your own." Ha.
Quote: alan wrote:
Absolutely. Regardless of the quality of his later work that was a huge turning point for him. I think will be seen as a staggering achievement in the career of the band overall when seen in context in later years. Darian said recently that Brian was not engaged at all to start with and you can see that in the SMiLE DVD. That sort of fear can't be faked. I'm not sure the release of the Beach Boys material now was anything other than a financial decision but at least it was one they finally all agreed on. Brian even says in one interview this month that he didn't know who would buy it even now. I think he'll be shocked at the sales.
Now I'm going to be contrary, alan.
I felt there was an overabundance of hype with the BWPS concerts and album. And, I felt one of those hypes had to do with Brian "exorcising his SMiLE demons". I never bought it. Yes, I'm sure he had some unpleasant memories about the various topics that have been discussed ad nauseum regarding the collapse of SMiLE. But, doesn't Brian have unhappy memories about almost every period of his life? I never viewed his SMiLE memories as demons, which is the way it was portrayed in the press. Unhappy associations, yes. Demons, that might be stretching it a bit.
Brian had so many other negative factors penetrating his life - drug addiction, mental illness, marriage problems/divorce, Murry Wilson, Brian being (or not being) a parent, his disintegrating relationships with brothers and bandmates, etc. Yeah, the demise of SMiLE and subsequent failures would be in there. I'm just not so sure those overwhelming feelings - if they were overwhelming - didn't subside over the ensuing 40 years. Brian was very busy just fighting for his life, his sanity. Is it possible SMiLE took a back seat?
Of course I couldn't read Brian's mind, but what I saw in the Beautiful Dreamer documentary was boredom, not confronting demons. He just looked like he didn't want to do the work, like he could barely stay awake. In concert, I saw fear - fear to remember the words, hit the notes, just getting through the performance - not so much WHAT he was performing. I also saw relief, not because the audience liked it, but because it was over, and he could go home. That was a lot of singing packed into those shows, no matter what the material was.
It bothered me slightly when Brian would say things like, "I was afraid the audience wouldn't like it..." and things like that. Yeah, sure, Brian, they're not gonna like "Heroes And Villains", "Good Vibrations", "Our Prayer", "Surf's Up", "Cabinessence", "Wonderful", "Fire" et al. Yeah, sure, Brian. I'll bet you thought they were gonna boo you off the stage or walk out. Yeah, right...
EDIT: Sorry, I wanted to add....Didn't Brian or wasn't Brian performing a good bit of SMiLE before BWPS. He re-recorded "Wonderful" for IJWMFTT. He was already doing "Heroes And Villains" in concert. And of course "Good Vibrations". Was he doing "Surf's Up" during the Paul Simon tour, I can't remember (I do remember him saying, "Here's a few songs that will make you smile"). Not to mention a good bit of SMiLE was released on the Good Vibrations' boxed set. It's not as if all of this stuff was being resurrected for the first time after no exposure to it for 37 years.
(Edited by Sheriff John Stone)
(Edited by Sheriff John Stone)
alan Administrator Posts: 7455 Registered: Aug 2007
Posted October 14th, 2011 02:33 AM IPI know what you are saying and yes he was doing Cabinessence and Surfs Up before the BWPS thing. But they were finished and out there. Doing the rest of it meant going back and looking at what was unfinished and putting it together in some shape, adding words and vocal melodies to backing tracks etc. Good Vibrations was always exactly as he'd wanted as he was allowed to spend six months on one track.
For years in interviews when the subject of Smile was broached Brian would retreat and seemed totally freaked by the subject. There were obviously other reasons behind Brians eventual retreat in the early 70's - and it clearly was the early 70's rather than post Smile as he made three albums in a few months after Smile was cancelled and produced a vast number of songs for the Sunflower sessions. So it wasn't the old chestnut of him locking himself in his bedroom after Smile, but I do think over the years it was something that haunted him.
Posted October 15th, 2011 05:15 PM IPI think in one sense, Smile is - as good as it is - one big overhyped thing. It is the most over-mythologized, over-emphasized, over-studied works of the 20th Century. So yeah, in that grand epic sense of IF THIS HAD HAPPENED THE BEACH BOYS WOULD HAVE BEEN THE BIGGEST BAND EVER!!!! it wasn't that level of disaster. Personally I don't think his creative choices were a disaster at all, and I'm kind of inclined to think that Smiley Smile was a more experimental, more audacious, more innovative album than Smile could/would have been. But I don't think you can say that Brian didn't see it as a disaster, or that the group didn't. They most certainly did. Brian lost control of the group, either because he was too burned/stressed out - something that could happen to anyone, not necessarily someone with severe mental/emotional problems- or because he just didn't give a shit about pleasing the Beach Boys after their failing to support him adequately. As Alan says, he was severely freaked out about it when it was brought up in interviews, and was unable even to acknowledge how good it was! Almost every quote after 67 was speaking of it in dismissive terms. "Oh that, that was a crazy uncommercial thing."
It's not that he should have to say that it was the greatest thing ever and that he didn't do anything comparable - he absolutely did, Sunflower, Smiley, Wild Honey, Friends are all on equal footing imho - but H&V was an amazing single, Wonderful, Surf's Up, Cabin Essence were amazing tracks. Not even to do with the Smile concept, but those songs as released are just incredible songs. Taking the concept and doing a great album with it was a great idea.
And to be fair, if you have had an experience with severe depression/bi-polar/anxiety whether personally or through a friend or family member, you know that the kind of insecurity that skews reality and says people wouldn't like to hear those great songs is something that can easily happen, even with very talented and successful people.
Posted October 15th, 2011 08:08 PM IPGood posts, alan and THE MIGHTY MOOG HAM. Because I find myself agreeing with a lot of your points, maybe my problem is semantics. I might be reading too much into the term "SMiLE demons". When I think of "demons", I picture Brian being HAUNTED by the memories. I really don't know. To be specific, I thought Brian didn't want to confront SMiLE because of the "pain in the ass" factor. He just didn't care enough anymore to address it. Whenever he was asked about SMiLE, if Brian was honest, he would have to throw Mike Love under the bus, he would have to address the exit of Van Dyke Parks, he would have to explain Smiley Smile, he would have to disclose why he didn't finish it later, and he would have to answer when he was going to finish it, and on and on. I felt that Brian was just saying/thinking, "I just don't wanna go there, I don't need this..." for those reasons above. Now, if those reasons TURNED INTO demons over time, so be it. But so much time and life and death went by...
THE MIGHTY MOOG HAM, I do agree with you that some of SMiLE is overhyped, especially due to the fact that so much of it has already been officially released in almost complete/original form. It doesn't take much work to compile a pretty good SMiLE comp from existing Beach Boys' albums:
1. Our Prayer (20/20)
2. Heroes And Villains (GV Box Set)
3. Do You Like Worms (GV Box Set)
4. I'm In Great Shape (Endless Harmony)
5. Barnyard (Endless Harmony kinda)
6. The Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine (still unreleased)
7. Cabinessence (20/20)
8. Wonderful (GV Box Set)
9. Look (still unreleased)
10. Child Is Father Of The Man (still unreleased)
11. Surf's Up (GV Box Set)
12. I Wanna Be Around/Workshop (still unreleased)
13. Vegetables (GV Box Set)
14. Holidays (still unreleased)
15. Wind Chimes (GV Box Set)
16. Mrs. O'Leary's Cow (still unreleased)
17. I Love To Say Dada (GV Box Set)
18. Good Vibrations (Smiley Smile)
That's not a bad representation.12 out of 18 songs have been released, the other 6 are some of the shorter segment-type songs. Someone could go on itunes and assemble a decent comp right now.
But, I'm still very much looking forward to the release in two weeks. I'm an older fan, and, seriously, I'm glad that I'm still alive to hear it. Think of the many BB/BW diehards who waited and waited and waited....
alan Administrator Posts: 7455 Registered: Aug 2007
Posted October 16th, 2011 03:09 AM IPThere's time yet! Any of us could peg out before it gets released. Imagine how ironic our loved ones would find that! Perhaps we could be buried with it instead....
Quote: Ian Cubed wrote:
I don't always wish to be contrary, but I honestly cannot see that any of the Smile music is "better" than Don't Worry Baby. How could it be? Maybe as good. Better, no way.
I like this live version, and it serves as a nice diversion until we REALLY get into the SMiLE Sessions.
alan Administrator Posts: 7455 Registered: Aug 2007
Posted October 17th, 2011 01:39 PM IPTwo weeks today in the UK.
(If it arrives! I can just see me waiting in all day and nothing happens.)
alan Administrator Posts: 7455 Registered: Aug 2007
Posted October 17th, 2011 01:43 PM IPInteresting the vocals are split between Carl and a young Jeff Foskett there. I always thought Carl was the more natural choice to do that but of course Alan Jardine handles it on the In Concert album - very well too in fact.
alan Administrator Posts: 7455 Registered: Aug 2007
Posted October 18th, 2011 02:53 AM IPAmazon down to £116.99 and back selling again.
I did listen to the Brian Disney album and though his singing is quite decent the album as a whole was bland as bland could be. No trademark Wilsoniser used at all to sprinkle some fairydust over it. Worthy but dull.
Quote: alan wrote:
Amazon down to £116.99 and back selling again.
Do you think it will drop any further over the next couple of weeks? I noticed it had dropped to something like £123.99 about a week or so ago.Have YOU been Con-Demed yet?
Posted October 18th, 2011 03:35 AM IPYou need good timin'....
I find the timing of what's goin' on fascinating. Brian Wilson - THE Brian Wilson - is releasing a solo album next week. Then, one week later, the SMiLE sessions - which could've been released anytime over the last 45 years - is going to be released. And, if that isn't enough, it appears that Brian is laying down some tracks for yet another album - WITH The Beach Boys. When you think of all the time, decades actually, that go by between Beach Boys and Brian Wilson releases, well, this whole thing is amazing.
alan Administrator Posts: 7455 Registered: Aug 2007
Do you think it will drop any further over the next couple of weeks? I noticed it had dropped to something like £123.99 about a week or so ago.
I didn't think it would drop to that. I ordered mine from Sainsbury's which is still the cheapest i've seen it over here (£113.99) but i have no idea what they are like with deliveries. If it takes them a week it would be a waste of the thee pounds saved!
You never know but anything is possible. Are you hanging on to see?
alan Administrator Posts: 7455 Registered: Aug 2007
Quote: Sheriff John Stone wrote:
You need good timin'....
I find the timing of what's goin' on fascinating. Brian Wilson - THE Brian Wilson - is releasing a solo album next week. Then, one week later, the SMiLE sessions - which could've been released anytime over the last 45 years - is going to be released. And, if that isn't enough, it appears that Brian is laying down some tracks for yet another album - WITH The Beach Boys. When you think of all the time, decades actually, that go by between Beach Boys and Brian Wilson releases, well, this whole thing is amazing.
We'll see what if anything emerges from him and The Beach Boys. I saw a piece recently that claimed they were working together and had rerecorded Do It Again to announce a tour next year but Brian then said no. Who knows with him!
