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relicracer
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Posts: 2
Registered: Nov 2007
 Posted September 27th, 2010 03:47 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Dave,
I appreciate all the hard work you and your crew go though to ribbon and set everything up for a smooth race weekend. But in my humble opinion there is a lack of any imagination in your course design, I know we are very limited in the area's we have to race in. Maybe you can mix it up a little, There is a lot of great trails in the Red Mountain area all you have to do is look for them.
I was looking forward to this race, I haven't raced since the first race of the season, I guess nothing changes.

Sorry Dave
   
trac dave
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Registered: Jan 2007
 Posted September 27th, 2010 05:31 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
i think you would enjoy one of the rounds at dirt diggers camp more.

remember, race courses are not trail rides, all racers look for the fastest way to get between two points, which means you cannot put in a little cool twisty trail up the side of a mountain unless you are going to have a check there. also, any single track trail in the flats is going to turn into a chopped up 10 foot wide straight line trail by the 50th motorcycle.

there is about 30 hours of time put into the lay out of a course. things to consider: the start area we can use, milage, how to route the course with a limited number of checks, HOW TO BEST AVOID AREAS FOR CUTTING THE COURSE, ways in and out of a technical section, limit the number of 90 degree turns "because they will be cut which tears up alot of land" use trails that will hold up the best, resting sections, passing areas, routes with the least amount of hazards, safe road crossings, access for our rescue service, etc..... i could go on forever.......nobody spends as much time as me scouting race routes at red mountain, i gaurantee it!

U.S.D.R. Administrator.
   
Bill
Expert

Posts: 277
Registered: Aug 2009
 Posted September 27th, 2010 06:30 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
trac dave wrote:
i think you would enjoy one of the rounds at dirt diggers camp more.

remember, race courses are not trail rides, all racers look for the fastest way to get between two points, which means you cannot put in a little cool twisty trail up the side of a mountain unless you are going to have a check there. also, any single track trail in the flats is going to turn into a chopped up 10 foot wide straight line trail by the 50th motorcycle.

there is about 30 hours of time put into the lay out of a course. things to consider: the start area we can use, milage, how to route the course with a limited number of checks, HOW TO BEST AVOID AREAS FOR CUTTING THE COURSE, ways in and out of a technical section, limit the number of 90 degree turns "because they will be cut which tears up alot of land" use trails that will hold up the best, resting sections, passing areas, routes with the least amount of hazards, safe road crossings, access for our rescue service, etc..... i could go on forever.......nobody spends as much time as me scouting race routes at red mountain, i gaurantee it!

and I want to Thank you and your crew for doing it Dave.even with my flat I had a great time out there.

Bill Markel/Bonfire racing
www.speedsceneracing.com
Bill`s custom roofing
King shocks
Tire Express in Quartz Hill
   
relicracer
Member

Posts: 2
Registered: Nov 2007
 Posted September 27th, 2010 07:12 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Dave,
I have raced @ dirt digger camp many tmes with USDR same start same finish. How about using the area were the 1st USDR was run or maybe across the street from charlie place going west. I'm just saying the trail along side navy road is getting pretty wild. I have been racing since 1979 I get our racing area's are shriking. It just seems to me that there can't be that much time scouting because the same trails are used time after time.
   
trac dave
Administrator

Posts: 2001
Registered: Jan 2007
 Posted September 27th, 2010 07:16 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
relicracer wrote:
Dave,
I have raced @ dirt digger camp many tmes with USDR same start same finish. How about using the area were the 1st USDR was run or maybe across the street from charlie place going west. I'm just saying the trail along side navy road is getting pretty wild. I have been racing since 1979 I get our racing area's are shriking. It just seems to me that there can't be that much time scouting because the same trails are used time after time.

searles station is great, but it not big enough for a 15 mile loop and the amount of entries we have now.

U.S.D.R. Administrator.
   
Patrick304x
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Posts: 842
Registered: May 2008
 Posted September 27th, 2010 08:18 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Nah you can do a 15 mile loop, badgers did a 12 mile loop so 3 more miles is possible
2011 USDR- #163 Open Expert/#3x Lites Expert
2011 D37- #219 Hwt Intermediate
2009 CRF450R
Team AS Racing
Thanks to: AS Racing, Kenda, Gaerne, Torco Racing Fluids, Scott USA, and my parents
   
trac dave
Administrator

Posts: 2001
Registered: Jan 2007
 Posted September 27th, 2010 08:25 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
Patrick304x wrote:
Nah you can do a 15 mile loop, badgers did a 12 mile loop so 3 more miles is possible

trust me, 12 miles is max. i've camped there my entire life, and we had 2 events there. when the C-ROUTES were open you could get almost 20. badgers also cheated and used some closed areas.....they would not be able to do that now with BLM pre-riding the course.

U.S.D.R. Administrator.
   
ajetmech
Super-Pro

Posts: 902
Registered: Oct 2007
 Posted September 27th, 2010 08:33 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Oh yeah there are some kick but trails on the other side of 395. A run through the el passos whould rock.
ARRGG Racing

John Latimer

14s 2012
29s 2011
501S 2010
40v 2009
57v 2008
369v 2007

Desert Racing... Because football, baseball, soccer and basketball only require
one ball.


SPONSORS: EVOMX, EVS, Factory Backing
   
Patrick304x
Unregistered

Posts: 842
Registered: May 2008
 Posted September 27th, 2010 08:55 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Yeah but the el pasos are off limits for racing..plus they have too many off limits trails. I wish the BLM would let us race fremont valley and cuddeback again.
2011 USDR- #163 Open Expert/#3x Lites Expert
2011 D37- #219 Hwt Intermediate
2009 CRF450R
Team AS Racing
Thanks to: AS Racing, Kenda, Gaerne, Torco Racing Fluids, Scott USA, and my parents
   
Goldenboy-2
Beginner

Posts: 52
Registered: Jan 2008
 Posted September 27th, 2010 09:07 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Theres always BARSTOW!!!!! my town
GOLDENBOYSRACING

GBK MOTORSPORTS RTT Stabilizers
Barstow Motorcycle Center
   
Patrick304x
Unregistered

Posts: 842
Registered: May 2008
 Posted September 27th, 2010 09:10 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Lol no thanks! Johnson Valley has alot to offer but I say keep the series in Red Mtn because thats what its known for now.
2011 USDR- #163 Open Expert/#3x Lites Expert
2011 D37- #219 Hwt Intermediate
2009 CRF450R
Team AS Racing
Thanks to: AS Racing, Kenda, Gaerne, Torco Racing Fluids, Scott USA, and my parents
   
eatpasta
Beginner

Posts: 50
Registered: Apr 2010
 Posted September 27th, 2010 09:11 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
dave - thank you for all the time you spend laying out the courses! You cant please everyone....
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
T. S. Eliot
   
KUDLA 21
KUDLA 1

Posts: 1808
Registered: Jan 2007
 Posted September 27th, 2010 09:33 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
In the BLM rules you must also use an existing Start area AND you can not make new trails for competition, so you're pretty limited on what you can actually legally do out there. For what we've got Dave does an awesome job. I REALLY like the start area he used out of Charlies though.
USDR EVENT COORDINATOR

EREK KUDLA

2 TIME USDR OPEN CHAMPION

3 BROS KTM, FLEXX CO., GPR, DIRT DIGITS, MOOSE RACING, DIRT TRICKS, BULLET PROOF DESIGNS, ENDURO ENGINEERING
   
ajetmech
Super-Pro

Posts: 902
Registered: Oct 2007
 Posted September 27th, 2010 09:55 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
Patrick304x wrote:
Yeah but the el pasos are off limits for racing..plus they have too many off limits trails. I wish the BLM would let us race fremont valley and cuddeback again.


I know but there is some sweet riding back in there. Especially after a rain when there is some water in the washes.

ARRGG Racing

John Latimer

14s 2012
29s 2011
501S 2010
40v 2009
57v 2008
369v 2007

Desert Racing... Because football, baseball, soccer and basketball only require
one ball.


SPONSORS: EVOMX, EVS, Factory Backing
   
Patrick304x
Unregistered

Posts: 842
Registered: May 2008
 Posted September 28th, 2010 09:22 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Yup I agree the El Pasos are sweet! I've done a 140 mile ride with perfect dirt from cal city to jawbone, to west dove springs, thru red rock canyon, the el pasos, over to randsburg, jburg for fuel, sand hills, spangler hills then back to cal city. that was a sweet ride
2011 USDR- #163 Open Expert/#3x Lites Expert
2011 D37- #219 Hwt Intermediate
2009 CRF450R
Team AS Racing
Thanks to: AS Racing, Kenda, Gaerne, Torco Racing Fluids, Scott USA, and my parents
   
Gman in Cali
Member

Posts: 5
Registered: Sep 2010
 Posted September 28th, 2010 11:01 AM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
First USDR race. Nice job. Wish I didn't have to ride as a beginner, but thats aight! Just one gripe: Race design? How about enlisting some locals to show the "designers" the fun stuff.. Woops and rocks? Really? I live in Ridgecrest and have ridden these hills for 35+ years and layed out course/raced D37 for 25 years. This was probably the most bland loop I can remember. I mean, no offense, but 2 canyons further east and you've got some seriously fun technical single track. Lots of broken bikes for reasons unknown. Love the format tho, well organized and monitored. Maybe BLM limited the course layout? dunno. Anyway, looking forward to doing another USDR, hoping loops will be a bit more creative. Will try to get involved and not be a griper..
Thanks and hope there were no serious get-offs.. kuddos to all.
   
ajetmech
Super-Pro

Posts: 902
Registered: Oct 2007
 Posted September 28th, 2010 03:22 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Hey Gman you should hit me up off line and we can try to get some riding in. I head out with Mike Stevens, Adam and Jamie Truelove every chance I get.
ARRGG Racing

John Latimer

14s 2012
29s 2011
501S 2010
40v 2009
57v 2008
369v 2007

Desert Racing... Because football, baseball, soccer and basketball only require
one ball.


SPONSORS: EVOMX, EVS, Factory Backing
   
trac dave
Administrator

Posts: 2001
Registered: Jan 2007
 Posted September 28th, 2010 05:11 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
again, race courses are not trail rides. you cannot set up a race course on the same trails that you might enjoy trail riding on. trail riders do not cut the course and do not look for short cuts around turns.
"i don't mean cheating." with a limited amount of check points you MUST route the course using the fastest way between two points.

U.S.D.R. Administrator.
   
Gman in Cali
Member

Posts: 5
Registered: Sep 2010
 Posted September 28th, 2010 05:57 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
I'm not sure any of the trails on that side of the valley are for 'trail riding' anymore the way access has limited trails over there to racing, but point taken Dave. And again nice job on a first rate event.

ajetmech, are you local F18 folks? your names sound fimiliar. Have some guys at hangar 5 that ride and we're always looking to put together some mileage.
   
honda3
Beginner

Posts: 37
Registered: Aug 2010
 Posted September 28th, 2010 08:09 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
Gman in Cali wrote:
First USDR race. Nice job. Wish I didn't have to ride as a beginner, but thats aight! Just one gripe: Race design? How about enlisting some locals to show the "designers" the fun stuff.. Woops and rocks? Really? I live in Ridgecrest and have ridden these hills for 35+ years and layed out course/raced D37 for 25 years. This was probably the most bland loop I can remember. I mean, no offense, but 2 canyons further east and you've got some seriously fun technical single track. Lots of broken bikes for reasons unknown. Love the format tho, well organized and monitored. Maybe BLM limited the course layout? dunno. Anyway, looking forward to doing another USDR, hoping loops will be a bit more creative. Will try to get involved and not be a griper..
Thanks and hope there were no serious get-offs.. kuddos to all.
I think it would be fair to get it to other areas barstow, johnstone valley etc. because after the cheating and the large amount of riders from the area they have a big advantage. not saying the locals were the cheaters I hope not but they do know the area well enough to do so. Can we consider other areas.
   
ajetmech
Super-Pro

Posts: 902
Registered: Oct 2007
 Posted September 28th, 2010 08:14 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
Gman in Cali wrote:
I'm not sure any of the trails on that side of the valley are for 'trail riding' anymore the way access has limited trails over there to racing, but point taken Dave. And again nice job on a first rate event.

ajetmech, are you local F18 folks? your names sound fimiliar. Have some guys at hangar 5 that ride and we're always looking to put together some mileage.


Retired Navy and work on base. I was in VX-31 and VX-9. I'm in global give me a shout some time.

ARRGG Racing

John Latimer

14s 2012
29s 2011
501S 2010
40v 2009
57v 2008
369v 2007

Desert Racing... Because football, baseball, soccer and basketball only require
one ball.


SPONSORS: EVOMX, EVS, Factory Backing
   
ajetmech
Super-Pro

Posts: 902
Registered: Oct 2007
 Posted September 28th, 2010 08:19 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Quote:
honda3 wrote:
I think it would be fair to get it to other areas barstow, johnstone valley etc. because after the cheating and the large amount of riders from the area they have a big advantage. not saying the locals were the cheaters I hope not but they do know the area well enough to do so. Can we consider other areas.


They will get caught and Dave will take care of it. We has in the past and will continue too. I'll admit there were several times I got off ribbon and when I got back on ribbon I gave the right away to the person on ribbon. When I did it was because of the dust and lost sight of it and tried to correct it right away.

ARRGG Racing

John Latimer

14s 2012
29s 2011
501S 2010
40v 2009
57v 2008
369v 2007

Desert Racing... Because football, baseball, soccer and basketball only require
one ball.


SPONSORS: EVOMX, EVS, Factory Backing
   
Jays2nd
Pro

Posts: 305
Registered: Feb 2009
 Posted September 28th, 2010 09:22 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
Everyone knows where the next race is at and so if you want to ride let me know Ill take you. Yea we use alot of the same trails but never the same course. I GPS every ride and race and it is NEVER the same...Besides if you have raced for years in the same spots that gives you a huge advantage. I know it helps me cause I always know where I am and how long I have to suck it up!
Jay Young, Team True Racing 5Q

"Do you not know that life is a race?...Therefore race in such a way as to Win!"
   
ajetmech
Super-Pro

Posts: 902
Registered: Oct 2007
 Posted September 29th, 2010 12:28 PM   IP           Reply with quote Edit Post Delete post
May be if you bribe me with another Catus Cooler and dont tell my friends that I went for a ride with a Quad guy Im game. LOL I am kinda booked right now got Finals next week and a whole lot of honey do's but when I get a momnet I'm game.
ARRGG Racing

John Latimer

14s 2012
29s 2011
501S 2010
40v 2009
57v 2008
369v 2007

Desert Racing... Because football, baseball, soccer and basketball only require
one ball.


SPONSORS: EVOMX, EVS, Factory Backing
   



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